The Honest Filmmaker
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
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The Honest Filmmaker
How to Make a Micro Budget Giallo Inspired Feature Film with Gene Dolders
#filmmakingpodcast #filmmaking #moviemaking
This week on the podcast I'm talking to Director Gene Dolders. Gene started in the corporate space then decided he wanted to move into feature production so he directed two short films to get his connections with cast and crew then set to work on his debut feature 'The Blade Cuts Deeper'.
Inspired by Italian Giallo horror movies, it was shot for 14 thousand pounds over 14 days. I talked to Gene about how he financed the film and the challenges of shooting over such a short period. We also talked about his sales and distribution plans and hopes for the future. Enjoy!
Check out the re-release of Jim's first solo directing feature The Witches Hammer - out now on amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B0F235F4T8/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r
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HONEST, OPEN ADVICE ABOUT YOUR FILMMAKING CAREER
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
Join the community: http://www.thehonestfilmmaker.co.uk
[Music] hi Jim here and you're listening to the honest filmmaker podcast career advice from people in the business this week I'm speaking to filmmaker Jean doers Jean started in the corporate space and then decided he wanted to move into feature films so he directed two short films to get him prepped then went to work on his feature film The Blade Cuts deeper it's inspired by Italian jallow horror movies and it was shot for£14,000 over 14 days I talked to Jean about how he financed the film we talked about the challenges of shooting something over 14 days how much fun he had making the movie and we also talked about his sales and distribution plans and hopes for the future enjoy so talk me through how you got into film making well my first job was working for a video production company in Southport which is in the northwest of England not far from where I live now and that was for corporate corporate it was all corporate stuff um actually mainly it was focus groups for car Manu factors so I did a lot of work for for Mitsubishi and Range Rover and essentially what would happen is they would have about eight to 10 members of the public would come in and they'd have like a mediator like a guy doing uh go doing the talk and they would sit in a kind of a vshape so five or four on each side he'd sit in the middle at the end of the table and then there'd be a room at the back where there' be cars that they're thinking of bringing out within the next 10 to 15 years and then we'd film the people looking around the cars and then they come back into the room and we film the feedback so you know very simple stuff but that was my introduction into uh you know production essentially because I had to do I was a camera that's where I learned to be a camera operator and I also learned live editing then sometimes I used to go on the edits Suite um and then this is in 2000 2006 so this is before a lot of Wireless stuff so these had like massive what were they called um RCU radio control unit cabl so these thick cables like this theyi running from every cameras these big big units uh for editing and that's how I started nothing sexy but you know it got me in that's all right and did you ever get any weird reactions to cars from people or did I mean is it DOC you starle you just s following them around yeah so that when they were walking around the cards it was all handheld which which was actually very good because it it teaches you a lot especially how to hold the camera steady for quite a CU sometimes we'd have to do handheld for 30 to 40 minutes which has come in handy now cuz I'm a cinematograph for now so um and I like to operate my own camera so when I'm doing handheld stuff for periods of time I can really kind of call back to the to the Styles I used to use when I was doing that stuff espec I mean it's not so bad now actually because the cameras are smaller um but yeah sorry no it was It was kind of doy style when you walking around the cars but when you got into the room for them to do the feedback it was all all the cameras were locked off you'd have three cameras One camera at the back of the room that would do a master essentially and then two cameras either side that would go in for profiles and all the individual people people and you just cut back and forth between them and the person mediating the whole thing wow I didn't realize it was that uh serious and that they kept that kind of information the car manufacturers oh it's mad I mean the amount of money they spent at that point they once they find a a vendor like a a production company that they like Ford I mean they they kept with them because they knew they knew that we knew their style so they they they flew me out to Dubai to the states all over the world to do all these focus groups with different people that's an interesting point actually and I've experienced this as well is that big companies even medium companies if they find like you say someone they trust who spits out whatever it is they're after they'll just stick with them um like partly because it's quality and it's good but there is a little element of there's no ball Lake involved from their point of view so they just go oh we just book them again we just keep booking them so if you can get in with a place like that you're you know you're laughing oh yeah yeah oh definitely and that carries out over to all the jobs I do now as well you know I mean when you're on set if if you're reliable and you obviously you know you can do what you can do and you're just a nice person people just bring you back all the time yeah definitely definitely so then um what H how did we get from so I know you do a lot of sort of corporate sector stuff how did you get from that to directing a horror feature film so uh um yeah so 2006 I stopped working for that company and I decided to go off to Asia and I was only meant to go there for a year I just wanted to go and experience Asia because I'm a I'm a massive fan of Hong Kong Cinema so I just wanted to go over there and just live there so I thought I'll get a job as an English teacher just so I can go and live there and then met someone and then one year turned into 10 years living over there and didn't get back to England till 2016 so I kept teaching English whilst I was over there and then started doing freelance uh camera work and then got into more post production stuff because I had been a video editor in England before then and started learning how to do just things like after effects you know like comp work and stuff like that um so I did ended up picking up freelance work over there as a camera operator sometimes and as uh doing like some post- production work and after effects for for some companies um but also teaching as well on the side to get more money keep coming through and yeah so that that got me more more actually into narrative stuff because as I was over there people were doing more narrative stuff over there than they were doing kind of corporate stuff it seemed like corporate was a bigger thing over more in Europe whereas in Asia there was a lot of corporate work going on but there seemed to be more into narrative work so I started kind straying into more narrative stuff there and i' I'd always wanted to direct I'd always wanted to make a movie since I was a teenager you know I've been a a film fan for pretty much most of my life I think a lot of filmmakers are you know they kind of grow up watching movies and they just you know the they have this dream of Mak making a movie and I've dreamt of making a film since I was in my early teens um funnily enough I wanted always wanted to be a cinematographer and I did want to make movies myself but I just like the idea of of setting up shots and lighting and all that stuff it really interests me um and then I came back in 2016 and I didn't know anyone anymore because I'd been away for 10 years from the UK so I thought uh I'm just going to get slowly back into it again here so I direct so I directed a couple of short films that really used as testers um I mean both of them did play in a some film festivals domestically and and internationally but it was never really my intention for those films to be you know like my calling card I was I was I was using them as test to see how if I make a feature film what mistakes can I make now before I make the Fe before I go and make the feature film so the F the first show I did taught me how to really schedule a shoot really that's all it really taught me but that's a that's a very big thing obviously and the second feature second shot I did taught me how to work with uh Prosthetics and and makeup um artist you know allowing how much time you need to allow them on set and things like that so then when I came to make my feature uh that those two main things came into play but essentially I just came back from Asia in 2016 thought I really want to make a movie now I've always wanted to make a movie I'm going to make a movie I'll I'll instead of going to film school because I never went to film school I'll just make a couple of short films myself and then because I was previously a camera operator I started working on other people's short films for free at the beginning just to you know just to get some more experience and get back into the swinger things again then I started getting some work as a cinematographer on short films and got a job on a feature film as a cinematographer and just started getting more experience on set and getting back into the swing of things again and I thought oh you know what I've made a couple of short films now there's no real money to be made in short films I mean I guess you can but there's not really um um I'm not that that my I didn't make this feature film that I've made now to to make money because it's quite Niche really the feature film I just made it because I really wanted to make a feature film I really wanted to make this this kind of this kind of style all right so we've gone we've gone we've gone Offroad 10 years come back and I guess the interesting thing about that is is like a lot of people students or new filmmakers that's essentially what you were is you're someone who's got the skills but not the contacts to make stuff happen so you've made the short films to kind of get back into it and go on right I'm going to do a feature film and you've shot a feature film called the blade Cuts deeper so what's give me the pitch for it what tell me what it's about okay so it's a I'm calling it a Gallo or G inspired slasher because there are many tropes that you normally associate with the G um the main one being the kind of investigatory aspect of the story where you know they're trying to find out who the Killer is and usually the police are involved the police are never really the main the main um characters but they are involved in some way because the main character is usually the person trying to solve them early because they're probably going to get framed for it now my movie's only set over four or five hours in one night so we didn't have time to introduce an investigatory aspect to it and also it would have increased the budget obviously as well so we're trying to keep the budget as small as possible so that's why I call it a Gallo inspired slasher because really it's it's storywise it's kind of leaning more towards the slasher but stylistically because I'm a cinematographer I've shot it more like a g with the you know the shots and then you've got you know the kind of classic um leather gloved killer you know all that kind of stuff you would see in a gello movie which which I love because I'm I'm a big fan I mostly watch Italian movies especially from the 70s and 80s big Dario agento fan big Sergio Martino fan and Visually I've um based my movie on the bird with the crystal plumage by Dario agento and another movie called torso by Sergio Martino But to answer your question sorry and I'm going to get there is the I know I know I'll I'm giving context sorry I'm giving context so the movie is about a production company called craft Studios and they have a True Crime TV show that we created within the world of the movie which is called lights camera kill and like every True Crime TV show you know they have reenactment sections of the of the crimes that they're covering so one particular reenactment that they cover um they're known for the kind of lur reenactments that they do you know they don't exact they're not exactly nice to the victims um who they just they just want to get viewerships for the for their TV show so one of the reenactments they do on one of their shows makes a family member of a victim very angry and that family member decides to start picking off all the production casting crew one by one nice that's I'm sure that happens on Productions on Productions well what what from my experience it be more the the crew members picking off the director and the producers one by one yeah yeah yeah that's probably the first person to go would be the director so just to Circle back because I was going to ask you about that so you answered a couple of questions there for me which is good uh it just so that people people who don't know and haven't haven't watched it Jello is Italian horror from what is it 60s 7s well the Heyday was really kind of the early to mid 70s people say that Dario agenta really kicked it off but he kicked it off internationally with the bird with the crystal plumage which I think was like 697 but I'd say it's it's from the late 60s to the mid possibly late 70s is the hay day of it and for those who don't know gello means yellow in Italian and there used to be all these books uh long before the movies were made these are like true crime novels and they would always have a yellow background to them with a picture of like the killer or something over the yellow background so once these movies started becoming popular started getting made kind of based around the idea of these these books they called the sub genre yellow yeah so so and the thing about them is to say is if you watch them if you watched it expecting a normal film you might find them quite shunky and sort of a bit uh melodramatic maybe but once you get into them they have got their own sort of style and uh heartbeat and you can also see the uh influence of them in a lot of bigger films here and there with shots and stuff like that for sure oh yeah you can see I mean you can see a lot of Mario Barber's early work in a lot of big big films now and Dario gento yeah you're right the melodrama I mean especially Argento his stuff was a lot of it didn't make sense I mean why is this happening it doesn't make any sense it doesn't matter it's it's like he called it h they're they're basically his Nightmares on screen so you know he could do pretty much whatever he wanted to some GS were a little bit more made a little bit more sense mine has quite an understandable story but there are bits that kind of stray a little bit you know just stupid things like oh why did they leave that door open or you know why did they do this or why is there suddenly a two-minute Chas scene through this construction site I don't know but it's a gell that's just how it works that's a good one that is a good excuse I like it I like it um so then uh let's uh talking about the film that you made how did you fund the film right so the film was um half I think I would say I mean I roughly say 50% of the budget came from me because realistically as a new filmmaker as well or not a non-name filmmaker if you want to call it that people generally aren't going to give you any money unless you have unless you've have some I mean I see um some kind of firsttime filmmakers if you want to call them that on YouTube who but they've already got thousands upon thousands of followers so they can call upon those followers you know to maybe crowd fund but because I didn't have any followers or I don't have a big social media following um I knew that it was going to have to be self-funded realistically so I did about I think about 50% of the budgets probably comes from me and then the rest of it came from friends and I think a one other family member gave me a little bit of money but most of them were friends so I think there was a including me and three other people funded the film so there was four of us all together that funded it and the budget is only small I'll tell you the budget if you're interested how much it was so the budget was so the movie was shot in 12 days uh with two days of pickups so 14 days of Photography really Al together and it was shot for £14,000 so you could average it out at about a grand a day okay it's reasonable it's reasonable um and where how do you save money what's your what's your tip if I'm making my first feature film horror film how am I going to make it cheaply but still make it look good well I guess I can tell you how I did it because I had I had by the time I came to make my first feature film I had a regular crew so I'd already shot two two short films but what I hadn't mentioned before is that was doing I had gone back to do some corporate work again because obviously you know I need to pay my mortgage and all those stupid things uh so I was doing corporate work as well to pay my bills and once I'd found a crew from my first short film which was my camera operator and my sound guy they're like my core crew you know they're my two core crew members obviously two big crew members that you need um I started getting corporate work but I I didn't really want to be doing you know some people videographers go out and they they do the whole thing like they do the camera work and they're sending up the sound I'm like oh I can't do that I can't bother doing that so um I started bringing them along and giving them paid work so by the time I came to do the feature film the uh you know my DP who who who who also if you know being if I'm being honest is somebody I've known for a long time since school um uh so I said I'm going to make this feature film he's like okay cool am I doing it I'm like yeah yeah of course if you want you'd be the operator on it and on the DP he's like and he said uh you don't have to pay me I was like cool cuz I it's always been a stream to make a movie I'm like cool okay that's great and and then he wouldn't even take expenses either so basically I got a DP for 14 days for absolutely no money and my sound guy just charged me a lot less than he normally would so I saved money on that then um other way saving money really um just like I said from my first film scheduling scheduling is a huge thing so I really knew how to schedule my time now I spent months breaking down the script knowing exactly how I could shoot some you know as as also as a camera operator and as an an editor I could see the movie in my head so I'm like well I don't need to do Master shots sir I know I need that that that and that and that's what I want anyway so because I knew exactly what I needed to do I cut down the amount of time that I needed for setups and also for the amount of time I need for shooting and that's another thing because I'm I work as a cinematographer now and and had already been before I made the feature I favor especially in no to micro lowbudget Productions which is basically what I work on most of the time a one lighting setup as in not one light but I'll set up the scene uh and basically just I can shoot then you know I may have to adjust occasionally some light a little bit but generally I've I've I've got the technique down to now on I put that light there that light there and that light there I can get the shots that I want we won't have to move around we know the block and once we've done a run through with the actors you can just you know bang it out and again having the actors that you know you can trust I've I've used the same actors quite a few times now especially one actor his name is James podmore he's from Liverpool he he's been in everything I've directed so far my first two short film and my feature film and I just worked with him last week again on a I just did a short filming card last week as a cinematographer and I got him on that because they were looking for an actor and You' got your regular crew and also your cast if you can find them you know you all know how you work together he crap cast know how I direct I know what they're C what they're capable of in front of the camera and what and they know what the um their characters meant to do and and what I want them to do it all saves time it really does it's it you know it's proper planning isn't it the planning really saves your time on set I mean ideally 20 to 30 days would have been better and we would have got more more shots or coverage whatever you want to say um but I got everything think I feel I needed for the movie and yeah that that that's that's basically how I Sav money was good planning having some casting crew um that only worked for expenses some casting crew that only worked for like low quite a low amount of money and some casting crew uh that just offered to work for free and what I've done is I've given them contracts um that if if we end up selling the movie and it makes any money then obviously they get a percentage of the film so it's all I guess what you can offer to people but there's there's there's various ways at the end of the day I think it's just experience on all those things will bring together to make something a lot easier to shoot in a short amount of time on a lower budget yeah absolutely and that planning it for me anyway when you are on set and you're you got the cameras and the crew and the actors you don't want to be in that situation trying to figure stuff out because it's stressful and it you're conscious of the time and you're conscious of so much stuff so if you've done that thinking at home the night before or the week before with a cup of coffee and you're just kind of it's just you figuring it all out it will run so much smoother for you so where are you in the process of the film film's shot is it edited are you sales and distribution where are you at the moment yeah the film's complete it's all done uh post production stuff all done sounds done grading everything's done so uh yeah we're just we are looking for distribution right now yeah now it be interesting to see where you end up distribution wise and the reason I ask about violence was obviously it's it's a bit of a challenge at the moment because a true horror fan doesn't care necessarily about violence that you know it's there like you say if you're if you're conditioned you've watched it it's kind of part of a horror movie but then there are I know there are some platforms who don't like violence at all they want everything vanilla but then you've got your hardcore audience and that's what they want so it's kind of find that space for your film where you're reaching those people but you're also reaching the widest audience possible so I'll have to come back to you and find out where you ended up distribution wise oh yeah I mean I can give you some feedback on Distributors because we have I contacted about 40 I'm going to say about 43 H Distributors if they're interested um I'm slowly getting responses from them about you know sending them screeners so I've sent five screeners out so far and two have come back and said they don't want it but they don't give you a reason why I mean I you know you know it's fine I mean the movie might just be [ __ ] so that could be the reason why I don't know um obviously I like the movie because I made it um and I'm very happy it's see the this movie is the kind of movie that I would watch I haven't gone out to make a movie that will Ascend my career to some massive level because I'm making something very commercial I like Gallo movies so I made a Gallo movie and it's not exactly the most popular sub genre films nowadays now obviously there are a lot of fans out there still especially horror fans but I can see from a distributor's point of view oh how are we going to sell this to the Mass public you know if if this is not really a very popular or kind of you know known sub genre anymore when it's Heyday was like 50 years ago yeah yeah no it's I think when you get to that phase when you've made a film sending the film out to sales and distribution you've got to as much as possible try not to take rejection personally because I I imagine it's it's not that the film's rubbish it's that it doesn't fit like you say some of them specialize in different things and they they look at it they also have to look at the film in relation to all the other films they have and how it would slot in with that and they've all got their buyers lined up that they know and they know those buyers won't like this they will like that so it is a it it can be a bit Soul destroying especially after you've spent all that time making a film and then suddenly you're sending screeners out thinking yeah here we go people are going to love it and it's just nonstop not for us not for us it's yeah you got to try not to tell that personally I'm sure your film's awesome looking forward to seeing it um so so tell me about a barber green digital what's that so it's a production company I started in 2018 so it's actually a cic so it's a not for-profit and I set it up originally to try and give um well to do work with local charities and local social Enterprises and also train people um and I'm still doing that every so often but I also my dream being to make narrative films I thought well why can't I combine the two so with the short films that I've done and the feature film I've offered obviously people who are interested or thinking about getting into the film industry especially narrative film making the opportunity to come along and do and learn handson um that's it but originally it was set up to make stuff for Charities and social Enterprises which we we are still doing but I've taken a break from it at the moment just as I'm as I'm concentrating all my efforts on on the blade Cuts deeper and and just get getting that out because I'm hoping that once the blade Cuts deeper out even if it's not um a massive movie in the sense you know that it gets this massive attention makes lots of money but it will prove to people that we you know we can do something and we can make a big production because the production looks a lot bigger than it is because as I called in a lot of favors as well from people from over the years I've worked with you know the movie realistically I worked out should it cost somewhere between £ 150 and £200,000 with all the time that's being spent on it and I only did 12 to 14 days of shooting but there's a lot of work that's gone into it in post production as well um I called in a lot of favors for that and I called in a lot of favors for some of the locations that we use so the um and also with people working either for free or very low it it brought the budget down a lot so something that should have cost a lot of money has come down and you know I don't think you'll watch a thinking oh this movie cost 14,000 but I want to be open with people and say how much the movie cost because in a way I'm proud of how much of how much that movie cost and what we've been able to achieve for £4,000 realistically but I get back as I was saying I'm hoping that once the movie comes out I can then use it to show people like well look look this is what we can do and if you give us the opportunity if you want um you know the opportunity to do something else we can do something bigger bigger for you whether it's for a charity or a social Enterprise or or or whatever it is now obviously the Charities and social Enterprises may not be into the whole horror aspect thing and I'm not asking them to make a movie but I just want to showcase the kind of talents that's both in front of and behind the camera for them so they can see what production we can make for them and you know the again a horror movie may have not been the right the right genre to make uh for that but I mean I wasn't going to go and make a drama or something that I wasn't interested in because you know may again maybe I'm only on set for 14 days but the amount of time you spend in pre-production and post-production on a film is is a lot a lot a long time and and if you don't like the movie you're working on what's the point and talking about liking the movie did you enjoy uh filming did you enjoy that 14-day shoot CU that sounds like hell to me trying to fit it all into that one did you enjoy it um and two what do you wish you'd known at the beginning of that week at the beginning of those 14 days that you know now oh gosh uh I did enjoy it I loved every minute of it because I finally was finally directing a future film the last six days were the most difficult because we switched to ninth um we were very we were very kindly offered to shoot we needed um a place where we could uh do a bunch of sets um in empty spaces and there's a shopping center or mall close by to Liverpool in ronom and
they close at 6:00 p.m. at night and
they open at 6:00 a.m. in the morning so they actually gave us a run of the whole
Mall from 600 p.m. till 6:00 a.m. uh for very very very cheap it was really kind of them and there was there was a bunch of empty shops in there so we just use some of the empty shops as different um uh uh rooms for the production company the fake production company came up that's inside the movie uh but that was that was a long that was they were long
day they were 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. and switching to night shoots was difficult uh for a lot of people I personally didn't mind it I'm on I'm on to whenever I'm directing something even if it's a short film for two or 3 days or the feature film for 14 I'm on a pure Adrenaline Rush the whole time so I don't I don't mind lack of sleep that doesn't bother me I'm just really happy that I'm directing something so I had a great time um things that I wish I knew now that I didn't know uh gosh you know honestly I can't really think of anything um probably there was there was uh two days where I didn't have an ad um and that's nothing to do with the ad that was working on it that's just the way it worked out um yeah I should have really i' known that was coming up and I thought I could deal with that and we did deal with it but yeah I think next time I will never be without an ad ever right okay good advice good advice um so I just finished with a fun question is um so you love your jell film what is the best jell film ever and and give me the pitch for it and tell me why it's the best one the best jell film ever oh gosh um it's probably profondo Roso really if you think about it it's it's it's it's Dario agento is kind of Epic gell it's a great story um and it's visually it's fantastic the camera Works fantastic the soundtrack by by Goblin is fantastic it's just everything about that movie it's it's extremely surreal uh for what it is like I said before Dario genta's movies are quite surreal anyway but this one there's just Parts in make no sense like there's a there's a bit where some guy he's building up the suspense and you know he's going to get killed and then suddenly uh through the door just this robotic doll just suddenly comes in and bursts into room it's got nothing to do with the story it's never mentioned again it's just all these random things kind of happening in the movie and it just it makes no sense but at the same time it kind of does make sense in in the world that Argento creates so I would say profondo Roso is probably the best one I've ever seen um but it's definitely not the best it's not it's not my favorite Italian movie it one other movie takes that spot and and nothing I think will ever push it out oh that's not that's that's actually the T-shirt I'm wearing right now but I've worn it so much that it's faded I don't know if it's called it's the uh the British title or the English title for is Nightmare City I think it's the greatest Italian film I've ever seen it's Umberto linday from I think it's 1980 or 88 81 and it's some people call it a zombie movie some people call it a virus movie some people call it vampire movie doesn't matter it's a mad action adventure movie with people biting people and ripping them apart and gunfights and it's really violent in the stupid way and half the dialogue doesn't make any sense which is what I love about films it's fantastic hope you enjoyed that episode if you'd like to hear from more industry professionals how they got into the business and how you can do the same or you just want to listen to some cool stories from movie sets around the world then please do subscribe to the honest filmmaker podcast[Music]
