The Honest Filmmaker
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
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The Honest Filmmaker
How to Direct a Movie for Shudder with Josh Forbes
#filmmakingpodcast #shudder #directing
This week on the podcast I'm talking to Director Josh Forbes. Josh started his career making music videos, he went on to direct a horror film called 'Contracted - Phase 2' and then directed a film for Shudder starring Alex Winters called 'Destroy all Neighbours'. He also recently completed a documentary called 'Gallagher' about the famous American comedian of the same name.
I talked to Josh about music videos and how this might be a good avenue into filmmaking instead of short films, we talked about his first feature film, what the shoot was like and the lessons he learned and we talked about the film he directed for shudder, how it came together and I asked him about working with Hollywood legend Betty White.
Check out the trailer for Destroy all Neighbours: https://youtu.be/puY9AthRUCQ?si=vrkyoa8SqXQE65YJ
Check out the re-release of Jim's first solo directing feature The Witches Hammer - out now on amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B0F235F4T8/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r
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HONEST, OPEN ADVICE ABOUT YOUR FILMMAKING CAREER
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
Join the community: http://www.thehonestfilmmaker.co.uk
[Music] hi Jim here and you're listening to the honest filmmaker podcast career advice from people in the business this week I'm speaking to director Josh Forbes Josh started his career making music videos he went on to direct a horror film called contracted Phase 2 an he directed a film for shudder called destroy all neighbors he's also directed a documentary called Gallagher I talked to Josh about music videos and how potentially that might be a good Avenue for people leaving University or film school so as was opposed to doing short films maybe putting your energy into music videos and seeing where that leads we also talked about his first horror feature contracted phase two how that came about what the shoot was like and we talked about destroy your neighbors the film he directed for shudder and I asked him about working with Betty White enjoy okay so talk to me about how you got into film um how I got into film uh it's interesting um I mean I I went to film school um and did that thing wasted a lot of time and money um and uh you know it was one it was one of those things where like I think my my my taste exceeded my ability at the time where I was like oh man you know I'm in I watched every movie Quinton Tarantino's recommended like you know this will be easy and uh anyway so did film school and you know one of the big things that I focused on was music videos um even in film school it was just just I started I saw I saw the lay of the land and I saw people making these like really expensive short films and I'm like there's no way I can do that like I just don't have the money but I you know I looked at I I saw the stories of people like Spike Jones who at the time I didn't realized was like from a wealthy family but I you know I saw him like he's making skateboard videos with his friends which then led to music videos which then led to movies so I was like okay well I'll I know I know music I I know people in band um let's start with that and so I started doing you know even like even in college like my senior project was a music video um which is funny because like everybody else had like really depressing you know or like a depressing video or you know short film or like you know a drug deal gone bad or an abortion or something and mine was like about a about a guy who like catches on fire and does a stop drop and roll dance and then it catches on the school dance and uh you know it's like really silly and visual and and crazy and like my teachers didn't know what to do with it um but anyway it was it was it was really through music videos I mean you know from there I took on a bunch of crappy jobs I was a substitute teacher I worked at Starbucks like I worked I uh I worked at the Harley Davidson T-Shirt Factory like I had all these just like completely [ __ ] jobs and then eventually uh yeah I'm trying to I mean I don't know how deep you want to go but no that's that's that's a good intro um yeah and it's interesting you talk about maybe your style not fitting in because uh when I was looking at your stuff it's quite a hard style to Define it certainly has got its own kind of like energy to it how would you define your style like enthusiastic hopefully like unpretentious um I feel like I'm always trying to tap into my like inner fifth grader or something you know my inner what whatever age that is like 10 year old or something yeah um 11 I should know because I have kids but um you know just I I I really I love really playful stuff I mean you know like my movie destroy all neighbors is like really gross and and horrory but it's still like as much as I try like I can't get I can't go like AR Aster dark it's like there's you know um but I don't know like I've always I've always wanted to fall in the footsteps of folks like like Joe Dante or Sam rayy or you know the the Zucker brothers who did you know the airplane guys and uh I don't know yeah there there's there's kind of like a I I hope um what I what I lack in technical ability I make up for in charm nice nice and talking talking about the uh music videos so that's not that's not bad show actually as a roote because like you say a lot of people do short films and I've I've judged a few short film festivals and you do sometimes you two send tend to see the same kind of stories over and over again whereas music videos probably gives you a much wider uh range of stuff what would be for somebody sort of wanting to start doing doing musical uh music videos what would be tips for that what things have you learned doing that I mean I guess there there's there's two parts to it because there's there's my advice as an old as an old guy now and then there's um what I would probably advise you know as somebody who's coming up I mean my my my initial advice was is would just be you know find a band find people who are making things and and team up with them you know um I mean that that was always that was the thing with music videos for me was I'm like okay well you know if if I can find a song that I like and a and a band that's cool like I'm halfway there like okay that part's feels professional um and then I'm kind of piggybacking off of them and then also piggy back you know hopefully piggybacking off of Their audience um you know so I guess but but now I I I feel like the landscape is a little bit different but maybe maybe it's more accessible you know I feel like a lot of bands or musicians or whatever are doing a lot more like social content or you know they'll shoot things that are sort of designed to be played on you know Tik Tok in little like 10-second increments which is insane to me but um you know I I mean I I think I think the biggest the biggest thing is just you know find people who are making cool stuff and then see how you fit in you know see if you can you know donate your services sort of thing would would you say that because I've looked at some of the music videos you've done and again they're very much your style with all of those music videos was that you pitching an idea and going oh we should do this or did they come to you and go oh what do we you know we've got an idea it's it's mostly been me coming up with the idea I mean there there I think there there are a couple instances like the Walk the Moon video um the singer Nick like he had written this totally insane treatment um I mean insane in the best way I guess I'd say but like is also incredibly ambitious and there's just like a lot of stuff it for three minutes um and that that one was fun because I got to sort of like take all his ideas and sort of synthesize it into something that was actually shootable um but yeah Mo most of the time you know the the the basic gist of it is like you get sent a song in a in a budget and you know maybe some notes like you know hey don't don't do anything on the beach because our last videoos on the beach or something you know little like or some they'll have like a hyp specific thing that doesn't even make sense it's like oh we want what we want a mad man madman Vibe it's like okay like what do they you seem to know what you want like why don't you just tell me and I'll do it but um yeah but a lot of it is is was you know would come down to me submitting the idea and um you know hopefully they they liked it more than you know the other directors that submitted um it's kind of C like at least when I was coming up I'm sure it's even worse now like there was just it's just such a cattle call it's just like who I don't have no idea how many people are getting are submitting for these jobs but it's like I bet you like like with commercials it's like two or three people but with music videos it's like I feel like 10 is the minimum there could be like 30 people 50 people writing on these things um you know in the hope of getting a a budget of $5,000 or something you know um but yeah but that you know but it was really it was really fun for me to do that and fun uh to to work the creative juices and you know what's funny too is that like a lot of times I mean a lot of the times I'm trying I'm really trying to like hit their target like oh trying to predict like what is it that they're going to want and sometimes that would work but but sometimes I would you know I'd either be feeling so good or feeling so bad that I would just say like all right screw SC it I'm just going to write I'm going to write this thing because I just enjoy fleshing this idea out um and I don't care if it gets picked up like it's just fun for me to write this idea and a lot of times those would be the ones that would sell um you know because I think I I I I'm hoping that there was like some level of Freedom or you know was more creative or you know but I guess for every every time that I've done that you know and one there's probably been like 10 that they were like what what is what is he doing but then I suppose you're that's your uh that's that's your talent isn't it it's coming up with those ideas and if they connect with it then obviously you're going to enjoy it uh filming it rather than it being a job where you've got to turn up and do something that's just not your style at all um yeah so uh so how did movie uh how did music videos then lead on to so I got down that you did a horror movie contracted phase two um yeah so my first movie is called contracted Phase 2 and um as the more the time that time goes by the more like kind of proud I am of it but like at the time um it was it was kind of a rough Go I mean it was um it it came about through a friend of a friend it was like literally an email that was like hey do you want to do a zombie movie uh you know a lowbudget zombie movie and I'm like yes send me the script and I read it and I you know I got like saw the word zombie on page two or something and I was like okay yes like of course yes like let's figure this out um but it was it was a sequel to a movie called contracted that was made by this guy Eric England and it was very like the original one is very much like a Mumble core kind of like um very low-fi lowkey like this this woman you know sleeps with a guy uh or she gets it's like whatever she uh she has an encounter with a man and then contracts this disease and then over the course of the first film she's kind of there's like these body horror moments where it's like what's happening to her body and then you know I'll spoil it at the end she becomes a zombie like the very it so it's like the whole premise of that movie is hey it's all the stuff you know let's tell a zombie story like all the stuff all the stuff that usually editors cut out but um but anyway but it was like pretty well you know well received and like very artsy and so then the sequel like I guess they I guess they had a Fallout with Eric but I don't know it was it was a really fun experience um even though it was like by the time I said yes that we had like a week or two to to shoot I mean week you know a week or two to to prep um and I don't know that was that was it was pretty awesome because like a because of all my experience doing music videos and commercial stuff like I wasn't scared like I was there was like nothing they could throw at me that I was like oh we can't work with this like I'm just I was very used to like you know all right let's let's let's figure this out um but then also was kind of nice to sort of like Get get your first one out of the out of the way um you know it it just it so when I did my second film destroy all neighbors like I all those Jitters were gone because it's like okay I know what to ECT um I mean it's interesting like when you're making a feature like one of the things that was that was so different for me was just realizing like what a marathon it is like what a war of attrition um which normally when you're doing a uh especially lowbudget music videos you're just you know put foot putting the foot on the gas just complete adrenaline like just you know get everything out in one day and then you just crash but like when you're making a feature like you can't afford to do that and so um so that that was that was really interesting it's funny you said that about uh it being a long War the uh feature yeah because the other thing I find is so with a music video everything you're shooting is the cool stuff isn't it it's kind of like the eye candy stuff whereas on a feature there will be stuff where you've got to shoot something quite dull that's maybe a joining scene or something it's just on the schedule that you just have to get done I know you shouldn't treat like that everything should be you know but yeah can can wear you down a little bit so did um how did contracted 2 lead on to uh destroy your neighbors um I mean it it didn't but I mean obviously it did but uh was the time gap between the two I want to say like seven or eight years it was really oh quite a big gap then yeah I think so I mean I'd have to do the math but it was it was it was it felt like it felt like a long amount of time um yeah I mean I I think you know I don't I I don't think the movie made as big of a splash as I thought it would or I I think it's just the way that the industry works it's like unless you're making unless you make like it follows or some movie that just like really breaks out it's like you know it's good for your career and it's good you know it's a good stepping stone but it's like it's not the thing that that blows you up but um yeah I mean uh like a after that happened um I feel like even while we were working on I was probably working on the script for drroyal Neighbors um you know I I probably have like 10 scripts that I'm you know that are at various stages of development at any given time um and so that one you know that was the one that kept coming back like even as time went on you know and I I would we'd send the script around to different companies or different actors and like wouldn't you know didn't get a good response I kept I kept thinking of quitting I'm like oh well I should probably pivot and like write something else but I just kept going back to that script because I was like no this is this is really good like I think this will make a really good movie um and eventually we got it to to Jonah Ray uh who's on Miss who was on myy Science Theater at the time and um then he he long story but like we ended up getting to Alex Winter from Bill and Ted and like he came on and he really added fuel to the fire and um you know before long we ended up getting it to shudder the horror streamer and um yeah I mean even even even then we had a meeting with them and they were like this is amazing we're gonna get our checkbook out right now hahaa um I feel like it took like a year from that phone call you know or that Zoom or whatever um but that's just you know that's just part of the business it's like there's you know they were shuffling money around and like different I don't know like it's always it's you're always up to the whims of the of these companies that are always in flux like there's always people coming in and out so uh what was the sort of uh Budget comparables on uh the first one and um destroyable neighbors I think neighbors had like 10 times the budget but it still wasn't that much it was um I think the fir I mean I guess it's been long enough I can say I like I think I think contracted 2 was like around like two 200 Grand or something it was like we were really squeezing uh blood from a stone and then neighbors I think was UN under under two it's like somewhere between one and two uh million um you know but also we shot it we shot uh the stal neighbors like in LA we did it all Union so like everyone was paid properly and um you know all all the all the good things uh you know that uh that you're that you're supposed to do I mean there there's there's part of me that kind of Wonders like what would how much better would the movie be if we had done it non-union you know like I I have friends who've done like non-union features and like they're able to sort of stretch the money and get away with more and um but I think I mean I think the reality is is that like if we had done it non-union like there's a lot of actors who wouldn't have been able to show up um you know because we probably would be doing it somewhere you know like in Canada or some you know Upstate New York or something like that um so ultimately it worked out but it was um it was definitely frustrating because again coming from music videos I very much have this attitude of like let's just get the camera and go out and go do it you know but it's like well no like this guy's rate is this per day and this is you know um they you know at this point we have to eat lunch and whatever and I'm like H okay rules um but obviously like you know workers rights is is important yes workers rights is important um so so would you say because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who love the idea of even pitching to shudder so do you think the Alex Winter connections what you got you in the door with that film or do you already talking to them before that um I think I think I mean Alex definitely helped um but you know it's it's it's funny is it came down to Joe Lynch I don't know if you know Joe Lynch he he he just did a movie called suitable flesh but he also did a movie called Everly and um Wrong Turn 2 I don't he's like he's he's done a bunch of stuff um and he's just an awesome enthusiastic like just whatever just fan of movies and and just a cool guy and he he knew Jonah and he read the script and he was he he put in a good word for us basically like he he handed it to them and was like look guys you got to make this movie um and uh so yeah you have to just find a just get a Joe Lynch yeah yeah it's easy we find one I've just been so tenacious and persistent about about it like it was eventually gon to happen but it you know um but it was tough because like Alex has agents and like you know we went through all of those channels and you know we kind of came up empty um but luckily it was a time when shudder was like um I feel like they had some big batch of financing or something I think that's my that's that's my suspicion uh like they you know I think that year they were making like a lot of movies um which was awesome and and it had this feeling of almost like a Roger Corman sort of I don't know like it it was pretty amazing because it's like it yeah it had this feeling of like Hey we're here's the money go make the movie make sure it's you know at least this many minutes and it's in focus and uh you know come back um you know I mean they they the execs like showed up on set and stuff but it was very much like there was so much creative freedom um you know was really really cool yeah I was was going to ask you that actually whether you how much input they have and do they did the script get tinkered with at all or you know how much how much sort of input they have they I think they had a few maybe they had a few minor notes but I think any of the tinkering was just done by us you know it was like okay you know we've submitted this script and they're like cool let's do it and then you know especially Jonah and I like we would just sit and like run through the script we just sit at a diner for like I feel like for weeks I don't know just like off and on like we would sit and like you know read through it and like all right how do we punch this joke up like is this you know is this clear is this confusing like oh how can we make these how can we reconnect things you know how do we set something up that gets paid off later um you know and really had a chance to really like um to hone the script um and then we you know we would uh I I know at some point he sent it to camale um and I think Cale might have had some jokes to throw in or we also you know we we did like you know readings uh with the cast and stuff and like you know reading it out loud and then like okay what else you know what's a funny name for a band or whatever like um you know so it was it was very uh very collaborative process like I feel like it it felt like maybe more like what it's like working on like a comedy TV show or something I don't know like it just I loved having um getting to work with Jonah and Alex and like you know and the and the three writers too like um Jared Logan and Mike Benner and Charlie Piper to just like bounce ideas off of um and it was nice because there wasn't there wasn't any ego really it was like just it was just best idea wins like you know so we were all kind of in it together so uh can you tell me where people can watch it and also give me the pitch for it what's the story okay yeah uh you can watch it on shudder um of course yeah silly me yeah um you can or or you know if you don't have shudder I mean I think shudder does like a free trial week or something like that if you want to be uh sneaky about it or it's also I think you can rent it on anywhere you can rent movies like Amazon or whatever um but the pitch is I mean it's a horror comedy about a a progressive rock musician uh played by Jonah Ray and he his whole goal in life is to finish this album album he has this album that he feels like once I finish this album then my life will be complete um or whatever like he's like putting his life on hold until this album's done and one day h a neighbor moves in next door and it's played by Alex Winter and he's in Prosthetics he's like this crazy looking you know Monster dude sort of uh I mean he he kind like he kind of looks like a um like a like a dwarf in The Lord of the Rings or something you know like there's just something uncanny about him and that guy starts making a bunch of noise and Jonah uh Jonah's character you know starts blaming his lack of focus on the neighbor and he ends up confronting him this is all in the trailer he he confronts him and accidentally kills him and so instead of just calling the police he starts to dispose of the body and then things go from there where uh you know the the neighbor's head comes back to life and starts talking to him and um you know he it so it's sort of like weird Comedy of Errors where it's like he's trying to cover this thing up and it just it gets Messier and Messier yeah definitely I've seen the trailer and I will put a link to the trailer and where to people can actually watch it in the description obviously I've seen the trailer I'm definitely going to watch the film um and it's got a lot of proses in it a lot of blood flying everywhere um someone maybe who's going into their first feature film and it involves a lot of Prosthetics what would be your tips to them um I mean pre-planning is huge um I mean on this one I worked with Gabe bartalos was our like makeup guy or our like Prosthetics guy or effects guy um and Gabe is amazing he he worked on like the basket case movies and Franken hooker and like you know he he made a a Zombie horse for Zack Snider's Land of the Dead like I don't know he's just like he he did a bunch of stuff with um I don't you know Matthew Barney who was like bork's husband that for a time I don't maybe they still are together but like he did this thing called the cre Master Series um anyway Gabe's just like a legend and um you know so it was a lot of working stuff out with him you know in his Studio like us acting it out and us you know like there's a lot of with our movie there's a lot of logistics like you know Al like 70% of the movie Alex is just ahead you know or maybe half the movie Alex is just ahead being carried around and being set on couches and shelves and you know um and like as dumb as it is it's like you have to plan all that stuff out and sketch it out and um you know there there's just like things that like a lot of these aren't just off-the-shelf remedies it's like okay how do we figure this out like we had a you know we have like a a skeleton woman and it's like all right like how do we do this you know and um he came up with this idea of like having one of his assistants this guy Ben like in a green screen suit like with the the skeleton kind of attached to him so he's like kind of moving um you know so so I mean that's a big thing is is is planning um you know I mean it is interesting like we really did try to go as as practical as we could with like the blood and stuff like that um but you quickly realize when you're doing something like that like why why people are moving more towards digital because it's like it's such a mess it's a mess it's a pain in the ass it's like you know a lot of times you just have one shot it's like this is the time when this stuff is spraying everywhere and like you better hope the camera's on you know yeah definitely those are the fun they're the fun takes to do and they're really I find like I've done it before we've had a whole day of really boring again I've got stop saying this to make it sound like all the films are boring but a dialogue scene you've got a dialogue scene dialogue scene everyone's waiting for the blood to come out uh and it is an Energizer on set isn't it because you're as you say even if it's one take you're just like this is going to be great got to make sure this works and it's so exciting when it happens it's a ball like clearing all up we had we we have a moment where um where Alex like basically like barfs on Jonah but it's like just the endless stream of like crap or whatever and I mean that was like a we got one shot at this but we like I mean it my phone is full of these like test videos that the that the effect guys did like they had this big tube and like they filled it with stuff then they would like open the tube and like you know so we're like okay trying to figure out like what can consistency is right what you know oh that's too lumpy oh that's too you know um which I love all that stuff like it's you know again it's like my inner you know 12y old or whatever it's like I just love you know the more that I can get away with doing crazy stuff like this and and call it my job I'm like this is the best thing ever yeah definitely and my I had had a I had a tip to that which would be if you're doing anything with blood you've got to backlight it you've got to backlight that liquid so it shows up and ridiculously that tip came from on my graduation film was an a bit similar to you at film school as we'd call it a uni over here my graduation piece was just bananas it was set in space it was aliens it was that kind of stuff everyone else is doing these kind of Hitchcock style things we did this big alien thing we had a big bit where the alien kills someone blood goes everywhere and um the director Ken Russell uh lives lived in the new he came to all the sets of the films that were being made and he went oh the blood you need to back like that so he gave us the tip and we're like oh okay and um yeah we put the light behind it and suddenly you see it all see all the blood so that's where that tip wow that's insane yeah that was a cool one um so uh my next one was going to ask you about so you got a documentary called Gallagher coming out and I didn't know much about gallaga because I don't think it's as big he's as big over here in the UK um so tell me a little bit about that yeah um I mean I I I can't imagine anybody there knows who he is because he's just like a very quintessentially American comedian from the 80s um he was this guy whose whole his big stick was that he would smash watermelons um and so every he's kind of been maligned he's just he's been a punchline for years you know comedians would just ha they would just make fun of make fun of him or you know because it seems so stupid um but my my my entry point was just like you know like I watched this stuff as a kid and I'm like no I think he's a lot smarter than people are making him you know that people are giving him credit for um and so that was kind of that that was sort of the the first thought was like okay like can I can I take this guy who everybody's sort of written off as like a hack or like you know towards the end of his life like he he got criticized for you know kind of having like racist or homophobic jokes or whatever like um which I don't which I don't condone uh you have to you have to say that um but I was just like I was just thinking like this guy's been overlooked and I think I think he deserves a second examination um and also just um he's just a crazy wild character he's just like such a even if he even if he like didn't do comedy or anything um if he was just some guy uh he's just fascinating um and so yeah I followed him around for about seven years off and on um he would quit the project and then he would come back on and then quit and like you know it's very contentious um maybe a little bit like the like the Ginger Baker documentary I don't know if you've seen that um uh about the drummer from cream um anyway so it was it was very like so part of the movie is me trying to make the movie and um but yeah it's really it's I think it's really funny and it's it's sad but sweet and I feel like ultimately uplifting um I don't know I think yeah it's it was a pretty big under did you know that it would be those things when you started or were they things that kind of came out slowly and you sort of shaped right I mean there's definitely a lot of shaping going on because it's like you know I mean he he sense P he he he passed away during the filming of the movie and so that kind of you know helped us find the end of the film but um you know when he was still alive it's like and you're always like okay what is what is the story what is the arc you know especially if he's just like shutting off access it's like okay well I guess I guess this is the movie now um but thematically like I think I think all those things were kind of in my head from the beginning it's like um I just have such a heart for I don't know for like car Carneys like Carnival people like traveling Comedians and um there's just something so like beautiful and tragic and I don't know human and amazing about I don't know just like the idea of like you know traveling Shakespeare company going you know across the country to like popping up different places like um I really really saw him as kind of like a traveling poet or like a like a prophet or something um I mean of course what he's talking about is like you know why do we drive on Parkways Park on driveways I don't know like you know cor like if our knees bent the other way what would chairs look like you know like just like goofy stuff but like anyway there's just something really really that's what I really wanted to capture um I think I was able to but it was tough CU like I wanted like his whole thing is watermelon so I'm like let's get beautiful Chef's Table style slowmo shots of him like running his hand over the Watermelons and stuff and like he was he would have n none of it he he you know well I did see that the what did look cool was there's in the trailer there's like a slow-mo shot of him hitting one with a sledgehammer on fire so he did some stuff by the looks of things yeah which is which um which I which is amazing like we didn't shoot that stuff um I wish I had um but I but you know I I still think it's it's awesome to be able to have in the movie and I but again like you know with my music video background or whatever like I always have an eye for those bigger images like those stronger images like how do we um you know then that that's that's what's tough when you're doing a documentary because it's like on the Fly and like you're kind of getting what you can but I always kind of have an eye towards that like how do we make this Larger than Life and then I was going to ask you on one of your music videos yeah music video with Betty White in it I think it's kind of like an advert SL music video what is Betty like white like in person please don't ruin it and say she's horrible oh she's amazing she was she was the sweetest sweetest person ever um so so so sweet I mean at the time she was still she was pretty frail and old you know um but she so like when the camera was off she was like pretty mellow but the second the camera came on she just like sprung into life and um just really funny like just a funny improviser like just really playful with everybody um yeah she she fits in well with your style I think yeah she definitely does hope you enjoyed that episode if you'd like to hear from more industry professionals how they got into the business and how you can do the same or you just want to listen to some cool stories from movie sets around the world then please do subscribe to the honest filmmaker podcast [Music]
