The Honest Filmmaker
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
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The Honest Filmmaker
How to be a Netflix Cinematographer with Benedict Spence - D.O.P on ERIC and This is going to hurt
#filmindustry #dop #cameraman #camerawoman
This week on the podcast I'm talking to Cinematographer Benedict Spence. Benedict has been working in the industry for over twenty years having started out on reality television, working on the very first series of 'The Only Way is Essex'. He's now working on big shows having been Emmy nominated for his work on "The end of the f***ing world" on Netflix, he also worked on 'This is going to hurt" for AMC/the BBC and most recently on Eric starring Benedict Cumberbatch and a seven foot monster called Eric.
I talked to Ben about his career, how he got into the industry, we talked about some of the challenges of being a cinematographer, we talked about Eric and what it was like working with a seven foot puppet on a television set and we also talked about his tips for you to get into the industry. Enjoy!
Check out the re-release of Jim's first solo directing feature The Witches Hammer - out now on amazon
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HONEST, OPEN ADVICE ABOUT YOUR FILMMAKING CAREER
Are you about to leave Uni with a filmmaking degree? Or want to change careers and work in a creative industry? We want to give you the tools you need to enter the real world of production or freelancing. Honest and open career advice from people in the business.
We also talk to those in other creative industries to discuss their careers, the potential cross over with film production and practical tips for a successful and fulfilling career.
Join the community: http://www.thehonestfilmmaker.co.uk
[Music] hi Jim here and you're listening to the honest filmmaker podcast career advice from people in the business this week I'm speaking to cinematographer Benedict Spence Benedict's been working in the industry for over 20 years having started out on reality television working on the first series of toi he's now working on Big Shows having been Emmy nominated for his work on the end of the world on Netflix he's also worked on this is going to hurt on the BBC and most recently on Eric starring Benedict Cumberbatch and a 7 Foot monster called Eric I talked to Ben about his career how he got into the industry we talked about some of the challenges of being a cinematographer uh we talked about Eric and what it was like working with the 7 foot puppet on a television set and we also talked about his tips for you to get into the industry enjoy first of all talk to me about how you your root into the industry did you go to UNI how did you get into it so um I've been working for 23 years 22 23 years professionally I guess um I um I started uh yes I I I I went to University but I didn't do a film degree I did um I did a sort of TV production course which essentially taught me how to make reality TV um you know documentary kind of stuff um so it definitely wasn't fil me um uh so I did that in I I started in 1999 and graduated in 2002 so that's yeah 22 22 years of working as a freelancer after that I got very lucky um I started working almost immediately after leaving that course um um and yeah here I am 20 22 and a half years later wers and I noticed on your IMDb page that you did four episodes of Maiden Chelsea so what what is that like and is it just you just filmed the whole time is it all fake tell tell me what it's like as a a camera person so so I guess um the longer version of that is apart from it's mad how you can't change your IMDb IMDb so much know which I'd love to scrub but um look I think um so I I actually did the first ever series of the anyways Essex um which which spawns um T and it was the same director um who went and did T and I had some degree of so and it's essentially it's the same it's the same setup um so I can I I can speak probably more to TWI than I can just go for it go for it the any way his exit I can Made in Chelsea um but essentially those those shows and and I Fel it felt like when we were making T we were actually making something different and unique and and I think it it still holds and I think it's still being shot now potentially the same with Maiden Chelsea you know but the idea was good and my my director JP John Pier he he was very keen to to shoot this reality show but in a like You' shoot a drama um so head sticks um lit every single scene was lit um how how do how do those shows work um it's been this has been 15 years since I've shot one of them but um essentially they're they're real people and their relationships are real but the uh the situation is produced so you you pile into some Cafe in Chelsea or Essex or wherever it is you bring three cameras in one on a sort of two shot or a wide shot and a couple of cross shooting cameras you boom out a couple of lights so you got up stage lighting in any kind of situation uh and you sort of do a bit of lighting you bring all the cast in they call them cast even though they're not really cast um they sit them down and they start them chatting and they have them chat for like three hours or something like that and then every now and again the producers will running and go ask him about who you kissed last night uh and then no prodes all run out and we start turning over again and they keep talking and eventually they Whittle down for four hours of fairly boring chat into two and a half minutes of slightly less boring chat nice not trying to be rude to those shows because um they they were a real thing at the time and it was really exciting to be sort of cutting edges think fun and that was essentially that was at the end of my factual entertainment career that was towards the end of my time shooting those and it felt like we we created something new and different and yeah I I don't mean to belittle it at all because I'm also completely thrilled that those shows still run and run people watching amazing DPS who shoot it and there's amazing directors who direct them and you know they've got a a very specific thing they do which didn't exist before we made the first series of T so what was the project that took you from that style into being a dop on sort of narrative stuff uh so I don't think there was one single thing I think if I really if I split my career into three diff three sections each one say seven a bit years long very approximately my first sort of seven years was was doing F entertainment my middle seven years was the move over and then the last sort of five six like five years has sort of I felt like I've sort of landed a bit a bit in that in that world the sort of narrative commercial world where I'm actually a cinematographer who's doing cinematographer things um which yeah so there's been a single one job which has affected things there's been sort of a few breaks which have helped but I guess from even from a time I was doing children's BBC shows and MTV shows I was also doing a lot of short films and music videos and trying my best to drag myself into that place if I'm being totally honest the first five years I worked I didn't even know what a DP was I didn't even know what a cinematographer was I saw on the credits but I didn't really know what the job description was and what the job entailed and you know I didn't know how to make things look better um or look what I would call good or interesting I you know I didn't I wasn't taught those things I didn't know so I sort of yeah the very first few years I was just happy to be working I had a camera on my shoulder i' go shoot blue Peter or I go shoot m TV cribs or whatever it would be and uh and I have a really good time doing it and I I didn't I didn't screw it up so I of from getting called back and and and and and when you're a freelancer but you know paying the rent is two-thirds of the battle so I was always just happy to work and it took it took a few years before I started going can I I wonder if I can make this stuff look better that's sort of very slowly taking me to where I am today so um essentially one of the one of the reasons I I didn't do uh Chelsea fully was I was one one of my early breaks and one of the first um drama sets I was ever on was I was a camera operator on The Inbetweeners movie I don't know if you ever saw that right yeah yeah did yeah iing British comedy of all time I believe still to this day um I was B camera steady cam operator for a DP called Ben Wheeler who's a very very nice champ and he got I think that was 2010 I think and actually I think that's why I couldn't do more than a couple of apps of the first series of M and Chelsea and so for me that and for me that was a big jump because sudden I was on this set which was completely different to the things which I've been used to doing and worked in a completely different way um and had real scripts and real actors and marks and lights and all those sort of things so you know i' i' done one or two days on those sort of sets before but that was six weeks end to end with a very nice DP Ben Wheeler looking after me and making sure that I could do my job without feeling what and and feel like I knew what I was doing if that makes sense yeah and was that was it like shooting a comedy movie are you is it funny or is itep unfunny deeply unfunny surprisingly unfunny I mean it's funny but um but uh it is it is work I mean you know sort of I don't think I think um I think if you shoot a funny show it's not necessarily funny I think if you shoot a scary show it's not necessarily scary if you shoot a sexy show it's not necessarily sexy um I I think I think the content is all those things but actually the filming of it is the nuts and Bs of filming whatever you do so um I and to be I like to have a good time on sets full stop I'm not saying my sets are a laugh RI but you know I I don't I I don't like Stern or horrible serious sets so I guess that for me it's all the it's always quite a nice atmosphere i' I'd hope but but shooting a comedy no it's not um it's not a it's not a laugh a minute unfortunately no no more than no more than normal yeah I know it's a shame isn't it and um so looking back on that uh progression through all those different types of work you've done what is there anything you look back on you think I wish I'd known that earlier on in my career oh my God all every every single job every single job I do I wish I'd known something more like all day long I mean it's I I I have I've spoken about this before if any of your listeners seen any of stuff I have a uh which I'm not going to show you can I show you this I can't show you I have some notes here and I have one called my work lessons list which is essentially a long list of all my fuckups over the years um and and because I I actually found myself making the same mistakes again and again and going oh I wish I knew that before I did know that before why didn't I do it properly so I I started to just write them down and and any learnings at all it's mostly negative it's mostly me having a go at myself for for for failing to do things correctly but um it's also a some positives in there um so yeah is is there anything which I I wish I'd known sooner yeah I mean Lots uh I mean got yeah buckets um is it is it more technical or is it more personal stuff it's everything Technical and personal and that's and that's that's the nature of the what what I what I do is technical creative and personal and those are the sort three elements to being a being a cinematographer and none and it it falls apart without all three of those pillars so my the things I'd learned to yeah I mean you know I I could I might write something about color contrast about you know some nice color temperatures which work well together creatively um or I might write something technical about you know High frame rates and Flicker and things like that and and what can trip you up when you're really pushing the boundaries of what's technically capable um or I might just write something about you know my my main my biggest takeaway and it's it's my biggest tip my biggest bit of thing which I've wrote down 100 times on there is never lose your cool um so and and and I've only done it once or twice on set and I've instantly regretted it and I've not done it for years thank thank f um but um I uh for me that's that would be a personal thing you know that's sort of I think once you lose your cool on set you you've lost everything you've lost a battle you've lost every last little thing you've lost every onset so you sort of just can't you've got to be sort of unfappable uh as a as a as a dop but yeah for example that's the sort of thing which I would capitally write down 100 times right well we you need to release that as a little book don't you is that what you're saving up for I mean it goes back to 2017 yeah that that that list so that's sort of um yeah it's one day perhaps there's a lot of bad stuff in there there's a lot of me sort of having to go at various people so I think maybe once I've retired perhaps or El retire yeah mostly about myself but there's also a few little Choice notes for people I didn't like love it love it um and would you have you got a style as a dop would you just how would you describe your style I mean I wish I did to be honest I I I I I don't and and I I I hope that's my strength uh is that I don't necessarily have a set style I think I have a quite a broad range um of styles uh and and and and I like that and I like that because it keeps it fresh I know there's some DPS who sell themselves very well on a style and a specialism and I think that's great for them and and I admire that and um uh but but for me I'm not sure how a style I mean I I'm I'm really a great believer in in shooting what's right for the script um and uh uh and it's it's it's it's a it's a it's a Fool's errand to try and shoot something which isn't on the page to try and shoot something you know against the grain of what it is on on the page so for me it's always about you know what what is a what is it what's the scripts and then take it from there and is the script minimalist and simple then you shoot in a minimalist and simple way if is a script maximalist and have all this stuff in it then you go yeah let's do it maximalist let's let's do all sorts of fun things so I sort of yeah I I think that's really that's that's how I that's that's what I do but do I have a style God I don't know no not really I I I like I like I like texture I don't like things being too shiny I think a lot of my commercials work is quite shiny because that's what people expect they expect high high Key Bright lighting lots of backlights you know things to look glossy um and shiny um whereas I think from my drama work I'd rather have a bit more texture bit darker grainier mixed color temperatures um a bit more Shadow a bit more shape but I don't think that's necessarily unique to me I'd love if it was I'd love if that was my style but and um when you're so you're you're obviously watching stuff yourself is there anything you watch on TV don't have to name the project is there anything you see as a d dop that you go oh I wish people wouldn't do that or is this that sort of a common mistake you see people make I things which are overlit I would call it overlit things we've got too many lights going and it's just too bright and you're like you're trying to sell you know some kind of dark interesting fancy world or something they no names and and the whole thing is just bright and overlit and looks like it was shot in a studio and they just go this is this is this doesn't feel real there's no texture and Life to this that's what and that's generally you know that's generally from you know fairly experienced dops however you know you never know where the hand of a Studio's come in and you never know where the hand of a client's come in and you you know you don't know who they're trying to please and and that's it's probably not how they'd want to do stuff but just try not to get fired on Big Shows um so that's sort of quite a round about way of explaining things but I I I do for me it's you know if something's missing a bit of texture if it's a bit too glossy it bores me um I want shape and dimensionality and texture and when I see that I'm I'm I'm into something and when I when I don't see that I I sort of get a bit bored and eye rly because because I can see the hand of the dop so when I can see the hand of the dop and the lighting and the lenses and the big swooping cameras and things like that that's fine but sometimes it just takes you away from a story yeah no I'd agree with that um sense I mean yeah yeah the only thing which I see and I happy to talk about this because it pops in my head the thing I see dayto day which makes me deeply upset is recessed ceiling lighting I don't know if you've ever if like put the big lights on and then there's like 10 little recessed ceiling lights in someone's house every time I go to someone's house with that one I go guys come on please awful please don't do that that's an abomination of lighting I know it's not on TV but generally in life just general a lighting thing that winds you up yeah recess every every time I see recess seiling down lighters it makes me really sad okay that's good to know um so thinking of people who might be leaving uni now because because from my days at Uni everybody either wanted to be a dop or a director didn't have a lot of sound people but loads of people camera camera obsessed with camera equipment so so I'm sure there's probably a lot more people leaving uni now than there were when we left FY what do you think the best route into the industry is for those people what is my advice people leaving University now I mean I mean immediately we're in a bit of a tricky time right now um so be a bit patient we've got sort of a a really nasty combo of various things and that the industry is depressed um back to our Union you know said there sort of 50% of people out of work as of a month ago so that's half of the industry is not working which is is pretty crap and it's a really hard world to step into when when you're just graduating so you know bear with um I think my sort of biggest advice is is you know number one don't be in a rush um it I've been doing this for like I said 22 years plus it's it's taken me all those 22 years to have the knowledge and understanding of what I do that I have now it's that two decades that's not that's not measured in months or weeks or numbers of shoots that's measured in decades which is a really really really long time um and I think the jobs I do now five years ago I wouldn't have been able to do I wouldn't have the understanding so you know it just takes an incredibly long amount of time some people it goes faster some people go slower I figure mine's a sort of fairly slow progression but I'm very lucky that it has been a progression so so so take your time everyone's G be Keen everyone's going to want to get into it and some people will and that brings me to my second point which is don't compare yourself to what other people's careers are doing it's very easy especially with things like social media to look at other people's work and other people's careers come out of University a couple of years later one of your you know ex- students buddies has got an agent and he's shooting commercials and stuff and and that that sort of that feeling of jealousy is is really poisonous to to um to one's own agency in your career you know everybody's career operates at a different speed and and yeah for years I had I've had issues with it for years I was sort of torn up by jealousy that other people were getting these jobs which I why why don't I get the job I've been doing this for years and years and years I know how to do this job I wish if only I could do this job my work would be fantastic and everything would be fine and where's my opportunity where's my lucky Break um it just takes a long time uh and you'll you'll get there when you're ready but yeah not to not to compare oneself to others is really hard but is absolutely vital believe so in this in this social media age definitely definitely and I noticed on your IMDb you've done a lot of short films sort of in between dotted throughout the stuff that you've done what why what keeps you going back to doing the shorts um I've actually not done many shorts in the past couple of years but um I mean I I sort of um but I've I've done dozens and dozens over over the years um uh some have had some degree of success some which which haven't um one which was nominated for a baa for best British short film a few years ago I think it was 2019 or 2020 um so um uh they're sort of they're quite they're quite enjoyable and there's the challenge and even when you're sort of doing bigger jobs which have sort of enormous budgets to go back down to something which has got absolutely all money is is quite nice and challenging and and those sort of those limitations can feed into a sort of a a discipline or a look um quite well so you know but I I sort of um uh yeah they're just quite fun and they're quite low quite low stress as well you know after getting off a massive massive job so it gets allows me to do do what I like to do but having to think a bit outside the box not just with throwing money at it um and they're generally with nice people I don't I don't do them with not nice people um and and like said sometimes I go somewhere sometimes they don't but there's always something I get out of it um Al it's because I love I love doing what I what I do as well I mean it's I I do it for free don't tell my clients I do it for free if um if if I was if I wasn't getting paid to do it um but luckily I do but um yeah it's sort of it's it's my dream job it's it's the only thing I've ever been any good at and the only thing I've ever done so been good at and have been able to do for society so um so that's why I do the short films yeah okay and talking of so Logistics are being a cinematographer dop do you have an agent does do you did they get you work do you get your own work how does it work yeah so I if I've been working for say 22 years I've had an agent for the past six uh I think I have a UK agent uh Vision artists um who I've been with for for five or six years six years something like that um and I have a US agent who I've been with for about three years Innovative artists um I agents are so I spent I spent so three quarters of my career without an agent looking after my own diary looking after my own billing um as such I think I'm quite good at it because I screwed it up enough times over 15 years to to to get better at it um when you get an agent I think people are often obsessed with the idea of you know I was of gonna get an agent agent's gonna sort everything out the agent's gonna do this for me the agent's gonna do that for me doesn't it's not as simple as that if only it were as simple as that an agent's not there to necessarily get you the work they're there to get you some work they also there to look after you with your current clients really your work gets you the work and agents definitely sell you and vision have been amazing they've definitely got me in lots and lots of places they have got me absolutely got me work but that's also combined with my abilities getting better as well and they've got more work of mine to show off and get me jobs so sort of it's not um it's not necessarily it's not the most important thing it's I I I feel Jim there sort of as the years have progressed there's for me there's not been many big breaks I don't think there been any huge breaks at all but what you find is all these little things getting an agent getting a US agent getting a US Visa getting a BSC membership like I've got getting an Emy nomination like I've got all which actually on paper feel like big old things but they kind of just little tiny building blocks and they slowly build up and build up build up and build up um and and and I'm not trying to belittle all these things but I'm just that none of them you don't wake up one morning and the phone starts ringing Steven Spielberg it sort of all these sort of things again gradually build up and again it's because one's career is measured in decades so so these sort of things are little building box and so uh my my agents who I loved to pieces you know were just another building block of that and then that becomes a relationship as well which um like I said absolutely love my love my agents Vision if there's a problem I phon them up I was on the phone them this morning about a a tricky political thing I had to do with a job um they looked after it uh and it sort of it and that means I don't have to worry about it and it's that's fantastic so you know there's there's there's lots of things they they definitely do sell people and they definitely do get people jobs but you've also got to kind of sell yourself and you've also got to kind of get your own jobs as well and your work is what breeds the jobs yeah um my us agents they're they're a whole very different Kettler fish they're they're um they're mostly about drama um and those guys work hard I'm not saying my UK agents don't work hard but the US agents are on the phone banging away on the phone to producers going meet with Ben do this do that and they sort of they're real sort of hustlers um and and I really like them as well they're they're sort of they're sort of in America they're sort of midsize um agency which I think is compared to the UK if they were in the UK they'd be the biggest agency in the whole of the UK so the market over in America is vastly different a sort of very much midsize agency in America is DFS anything we have over here in the UK um which is always always shocks me when I when I when I see that but um yeah I'm I the important thing for me about agenes is it's a relationship and and you'd hope it would last all your career or you know vast chunks of your career um and it's and it's important to have people who you you like representing you yeah so talking of uh leading on to work and onto Eric I've got to talk to you about Eric so how did that job come up um so Eric um which came out in start of this year or in May or something like that um on Netflix um that was um a good friend of mine uh Lucy Forbes who's a director uh she called me up for that she she sort of been asked to to to direct for this series and I've been talking to her about it and uh sounded really exciting and she said you want to come along and shoot it and I was like yeah of course um I me it is that it is that simple really I sort of again you know relationships I've known Lucy for we've been working together for 15 years something like that we used to do factual entertainment together a long time ago we used to shoot a show called orange playlist which was Jay middlemiss asking people what their playlist of their life was you know so sort of it's quite a sort of you know there it's um it's uh that relationship ship is is very longlasting we both come from that same world um in the past five or six years Lucy's had a good degree of success in drama uh and I'm very lucky that she's taken me with her and I've tried to support her as well so Eric was sort of the fourth drama we did together I think or the fifth drama we've done together um and so of course when she said you want to go shoot this crazy TV show set in New York um I was like yeah great let's do it let's do it and did do you because obviously well I if this is obvious or not I'm assuming each thing you do has got a bigger budget has youve gone up has it it feels that way in the past five years and and you know that's the past five years is certainly where I feel like I've had the most sort of progression in my my career sort of hard things pinned down on because I'm writing the sort of bleeding heads of it I guess so does so does with the fact that it goes up with money do you if Lucy says oh I want to use Ben for this is she just going to uh producers going look here's the stuff he's done worked with him before love him let's do it or is there any element of you having to convince anybody that you're the every stage of the way you have to convince people really every stage of the way you have to sort of pitch for the job so you have to do some kind of meeting for it um Eric was very slightly different for um various reasons but yeah essentially every job I've done with Lucy I've had to pitch to The Writers the exact production company um Etc and that that is part of the the process and that's sort of a thing which I'm quite new to to be honest uh in that I you know I've been had a camera on my shoulder for for 20 more than 20 years probably 25 30 years or something stupid like that whereas I've not been doing these pitches for very long and I've done them a handful of times you know maybe maybe a dozen jobs I've pitched for uh in the past sort of probably not even say 10 jobs in the past six years so you know it's it's something which happens irregularly and it's something which I find is quite stressful as well because you've got an hour to talk to the director in the exx and and you got to get over what you feel about their projects and you got to do it in a way which makes sense and doesn't make you look like an or an idiot yeah is it have you got any tips for that pitching anything you think would help someone else in that situation I would say I mean it's easy for me to say this I think I think you if you don't believe in the project don't do the pitch and I think if you do believe in the project then you could you should be able to quite easily find um the things you like about it uh and so I think you should be honest and I think that Honesty comes through and find the reasons you like it and if you can visualize it in your head find the words and images of other people's images as well to to to um to to to show that to show what you think the show should look like so I think I think it sound mad but but yeah a pinch of honesty um and and and and a big pinch of sort of creative thought on it and then also it's just nice to show other people's I get get lots of stills from shot deck or one of those many websites or from your own references folder which I would highly recommend people start doing if you see something you like screenshot it put it somewhere and then you just show other people's work and say hey something a bit like this yeah um uh that's that's sort of the way I I I do it but but I think being I think being being honest being yourself uh and and and truly saying how you think the show should be because what you don't want to do is to say how you think they want the show to look like uh and then when you come to shoot it you realize that's not what the show is that you want to shoot or it should be or anything like that so just yeah and ultimately if you don't get a job it's it's it was never meant to be yeah yeah yeah and and Eric's got a particular look about it um so with that how I'm assuming you did some uh camera tests and stuff like that H how involved in that grade are you as well because obviously that's going to have a massive impact on how it looks when it gets put on TV yeah so I guess um uh so the sort of the the the sort of overall my over my sort of creative thoughts on Eric so previous jobs I've done with Lucy were a little bit smaller in scope um both in terms of General screen time but also in terms of the world which was being created and for other shows like this is going to hurt or end of the world Lucy and I um did um Rule books where we sort of constricted ourselves to just handheld or centralized framing or whatever it may be whereas I think as we're looking at Eric like this is so broad it's enormous we can't really constrict it because there's so many things which just won't work for different parts of us um uh so in terms of the the the look and the overall style I mean I was really Keen to not have something which was obviously set in the 80s so it's got a feel of the period um but I for a little bit I sort of talked to Lucy about us lighting it like it was in the 80s like it was an 80s TV show or something like that and it just felt really on the nose and it just it wouldn't have looked nice and I think Netflix want to highend T TV show and people want to see a high-end a high-end TV show on their Tellies after paying Netflix 12 Grand a month or whatever it is so sort of definitely pulled back from from that idea but obviously it still had to have something which felt of the time which felt of the period so sort of I mean number one obviously you got production design which is there but for me what I wanted to do was to was to bring a lot of that in the grade uh um and not just the grade but just general layers of post workor um uh on it so we did a you know we did a few little tiny tweaks in camera a few little lens things some filtration things to to bring about that look but a lot of it was was done in the grade and that and that was baked in well not baked into the picture but that was baked into to what we wanted to do from the very beginning so you you know you can't really just do that at the end you have to have a a purpose and desire to do it from the beginning um and so on on on Eric I worked with Toby Tomkins colorist um who I've known for many years now who and Lucy and he have worked together on most of our shows I think if not all of our shows um and he's brilliant at doing sort of film stock emulation which is great for the colors um but what he's also good for which he hates me making him do but is is all the sort of grain and texture and halation and all those all those little things which individually nothing's GNA sell it but once you add add all those things up all these little tiny bits of in camera filtration and the halation Toby produces and this and his look and all this kind of stuff like that and then suddenly you got some which looks feels of the past and it's it's almost intangible it's really hard to say why it feels like that but but it does um but yet I still got to deliver something which was lit like a modern TV show and allowed us to work at speed like a modern TV show and didn't feel like we're sort of really on the nose of some kind of pasti of the 80s no it looks beautiful um and the other the other element of that which I guess you'd maybe not done before is so you got Ole Taylor as Eric the big monster how was that how did that change things for you and was there any kind of recalibration in your brain as to because he's obviously much bigger than a normal person um and he's got his own limitations how did that work for you um how's it working with a s foot high giant monster puppet uh on a busy TV Set uh yet an absolute bowling ball to our schedule so we had an amazing Puppeteer um Ole Taylor our lead pueter uh and he had a team around him as well um I don't know um yeah and he he was in this walk around suit where he had you know he was giant big fairy suit thing with a head on when he put the head on he he also had these sort of fpv goggles and fed into these fpv goggles were my camera and like a couple of GoPros so he could see where he was walking so when he put the goggles on and put the Eric head on he couldn't see anything other than what ly's cameras were seeing which is I cannot understand how that man managed to do his job but did it he did and it was fantastic it was it is sort of it gave me a real understanding of of what I mean i s I was there what papete teers have to go through physically and mentally it's incredibly demanding and performable at the same time um it is also and this is this is not a snight to to olle and his team at all it is slow and it is difficult um but when it works it's magical it's amazing and also everyone turns into little kids when they just and because OE sort of wants to head on he's kind of half in character and he's doing you know Eric's stuff and it turns everyone's little giggling giggling kids and and you sort of have to go up to olle and talk to him and he's like doing his Eric thing and he's talking about to you you say can you walk here he's like yeah of course I'm G do that you know you're just like w this is this is just silly and amazing um so what was it like it was sort of it was we we all knew it was going to be tough um but I think once we started filming we're like oh wow oh yeah this is really this is really really tough um essentially I think every every show you do has a sort of a a a thing I find which is the you go oh wow okay that's really hard like for example on the um on this is going to hurt um which is a show about a junior doctor which Lucy and I shot in 2021 um we had a a lots of Prosthetics there's lots of women giving birth there's lots of operations we had had like sort of 10 days in this operating theater with all this all this um uh all this sort of fake stomachs and guts and all sorts of stuff like that and that was so complicated it was incredibly challenging and and you you watch it you go oh yeah they just operating someone but oh my God no it's just it's all that there's so much stuff there and and I think for for me that was the same with with um olle Taylor and Eric puppet and stitches and glue and all those guys it was I knew it was G to be complicated but it was it was way more complex than than um than we expected but but what you get is this magic you get the magic of Eric uh of a real and there's no there's no CGI in there at all there's not even CGI tidy up I don't think it's all real it's all in uh and and and it and and it makes it really exciting I wish there was more Eric in it to be honest I was sad that they they didn't put more in or didn't have more in anyway that's maybe Eric but it was it was worth it just to see doctor strange and uh giant puppet snorting coke in a bathroom toilet then go going dancing and then having a fight I mean that was it for me that ticked all of my boxes for any Netflix drama I hope you enjoyed that episode if you'd like to hear from more industry professionals how they got into the business and how you can do the same or you just want to listen to some cool stories from movie sets around the world then please do subscribe to the honest filmmaker podcast[Music]
