How to Crowd Fund your feature film with Writer/Director MJ Dixon - Career advice from successful crowd funder

#crowdfunding #filmmaking #indiefilm

Today I’m joined by writer/director MJ Dixon.
 
 MJ has directed so many shorts and features I struggled to find the exact number but they include;
 Slasher House (2012), Legacy or Thorn (2014), Cleaver: Rise of the Killer Clown (2015), Hollower (2016), Slasher House 2 (2016), The Haunting of Molly Bannister (2019), Mask of Thron (2019), Pandamonium (2020), Slasher House 3 (2024).
 
 MJ runs UK Production company Mycho Pictures with his wife Anna and has created an entire horror universe.  I chatted to MJ about how he crowd funds his feature films, his top things to consider if you're thinking of crowd funding, his advice for directors and some war stories about sales and distribution.
 
 MJ on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3262576/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 

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Transcript

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[Music] hi I'm Jim EES and you're listening to the honest filmmaker podcast career advice from people in the business today I'm talking to MJ Dixon now I tried to work out how many short films and features MJ's actually directed and I couldn't get to that number myself MJ runs ma show pictures with his wife Anna Dixon and they created an entire horror Universe thank you for joining me MJ so for anyone about to make the first feature they're going to go down the crowdfunding route have you got any tips for them well um I mean my advice really would be don't crowdfund your first feature okay uh because I think you learn a lot on your first feature that um isn't necessarily good but you need to learn um so before why made slash house I made another feature called creepsville um it was supposed to be a 14-day shoot in July of 2009 and it took five months to get through that principal photography and still didn't have everything in the can took another year to get everything and then at that point everyone was working on it for nothing they had no real budget but had a a huge crew because I'd just graduated and so a lot of people were like oh a film to work on excellent will come and but by the time it got to edit and like and post people just weren't interested anymore you know I was struggling to get the actors back to do ADR um the editor like didn't he he went and got like a proper job doing like House videos so then he didn't have time to do that and So eventually like this film just ended up sitting on a hard drive and if I had crowdfunded that I would have been in real trouble because then I'm sat there going how do I deliver this to people like um in a in a in a form that I'm comfortable with you know um to a standard I'm comfortable with and so I learned a lot of stuff on that first feature theyve had crowdfunded that I would that would have been my career mod forever like because I don't think I would have been able to deliver that at least not in the satisfactory nature that I would have wanted um and so my advice really would be go and shoot a film like even if it's not very good you can shoot a feature now for for next to nothing just keep your idea simple you know what can I set in one room with two to people if you're a filmmaker at this point to feel like you know people who want to act or it's very easy to find people who would like to just come and try you know being in a film for like a feature film or something who would like that experience or would like that on their show reals or whatever um that's what it's all about really is it's about growing with the people you're working with a lot of the time especially on at the kind of low no budget level um you're really relying on other people all kind of wanting to get something out of it the same way that you want you want to make films and people want to be in films and it's about finding that connection so my advice really would be make your first at very least make handful of short films but I would I would try and make a feature on very little no crowdfunding just your own Ingenuity because that will come in really handy when it comes to your next thing which is the crowdfunding and then once you're crowdfunding that's other people's money yeah and so then you have to have that Ingenuity built into you to be able to deliver on that and I suppose you you've also once you've done that first one you've got a little bit of proof in the pudding what you can do and you've got people around you sort of started to assemble this team you people you can you know you can rely on some people like you say you get some people who are well up for it and then they just sort of flake off into the distance and you get who are with you still you know now today um so I'm now I've done my first one I've taken your advice I've shot some it on a phone done a feature I've learned a ton of stuff and I'm about to set up a crowdfunding what do I do what's the what's the most three most important things about doing a crowdfunding campaign oh um I would say uh don't overshoot that's number one y big one uh like the amount of crowdfunders that come up 100 Grand like I think um you know in 2010 someone launched a crowdfunder for like a 100 Grand and I think the biggest the most money any independent film had raised at that point was like uh 30 grand or something and that was from like an established team and like I'm like are you insane like you know like and so they didn't raise anything whatsoever um and so that's a big thing yeah don't overshoot really what I would say is think about think about the money you actually need like um you know Bare Bones like if you weren't paying anyone and you were just doing it like you know as favors and begging and borrowing and stealing how much money do you actually need like 100 price all that up what do you actually need like in terms of crops and locations price all that up then try and cut it in half because that's always possible when you price everything up you tend to look at the bug standard price for everything and then why I tend to be always go okay how can I discount this stuff by 50% is it a location is there a location that would work the same but would be half the price you know is there a prop that would work but I can get it cheaper is there you know um in terms of equipment I'd love to shoot it on a red but can I rent a uh a black magic for for cheaper can I buy a black magic um for the for the price of renting a red and then um I have that for any pickups we need to do there's no time scales that I need to stick to in terms of it's got to be at the rental house it's got to come out it's got to go back you know H in terms of lenses I mean I could go on forever sure so so uh number one don't overshoot don't overshoot always try always try and get the money you need not the money you'd like because like I mean I'd like you know 50 Grand to make a film but the re the reality is if I have to I can do it on you could make about 20 films for 50 Grand couldn't you 30 50 yeah why not all right so uh so give me number two what's number two cring never ever ever go through flexible funding ever so so for people who don't know Define that to me what is that right so H you don't Kickstarter is not so much of a problem Kickstarter you basically it's an all or nothing thing so you set your price say it's say you want to raise five grand to make a film you set your price if you don't raise that five grand you don't get anything and that's it it's over close done but Indiegogo a thing called um flexible funding where you can do all or nothing where again works exactly the same you don't raise your five grand you get absolutely nothing um or they do a thing called flexible funding where you get to keep whatever money you make even if it's not the goal but you get a higher premium on the rate they take off the top which is another thing we'll talk about I'm sure later on which is very important but yes essentially um flexible funding is like a pit of death for filmmakers and I see it happen time and time again um so like what you'll get is someone going okay I want to raise 20 grand to make um you know shark shark tastic uh shastic Slash slasher three yeah or whatever 3D um they've never made a film before or or they've made a couple of bits and Bobs but they've decided now's the time they want to make their feature film 20 grand is the least they could do it on and that's like you know that's with them sacrificing the caviar that they usually have and all that you know like um but they go I'll put it on flexible funding because at least if we don't make 20 grand what if we make 19 Grands then you know but what happens is they make 1,00 quid but unfortunately some people have put 100 200 money you know pounds into your film and now they expect that a product and the problem is that at the end of that then indigogo comes along and goes okay here's your money but that premium that's a lot more because you didn't reach your goal so we'll take a good chunk of that and then already do that anyway but when you haven't reached your goal they're taking a good quarter of that so now what happens is you've got 1,200 quid minus quarter of that so whatever that is 900 so you got 900 pound left so now you're in a bit of a position where you can't really refund people without paying out your own pocket so now you've just paid and this is if you're lucky about 300 quids to refund people if you have have that which is a filmmaker in their early career I certainly didn't you know otherwise I wouldn't be crowdfunded I'd be looking for so um but if you make considerably more than that you can see where the problem starts to come in so say you've made five grand of your 20 grand and then they come in and take quarter of that you've now got to find thousands of pounds to to and so it's like a money pit so you either have to deliver the film that needed 20 grand now on 900 quid or you have to refund those people out of your own pocket you see the issue like and so I see it happen time and time again and what happens is the film just doesn't happen these people get marred with like a horrible reputation and then they never they can never make another film because they can't go crowdfunding again because then their next campaign is just full of people going where's my money off the last one where's the last one this guy's a scammer it's blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah you know so you get all that from that and then on top of that they it's really hard to find private Finance for a film if you've got nothing under your belt so what happens is people end up killing their careers with flexible funding before they even start and do do you think flexible funding has any effect any psychological effect on the funders yeah well I think it looks like people are just whatever money they can get yeah um because I mean technically they don't have to deliver it by the rules of crowdfunding like um you know you're not buying a product you're investing in a person I mean they say that when you yeah you know when you back a campaign they go this isn't a product you know we can't guarantee that these people will deliver you're you're investing in a a product or a service or a person or a team um but your reputation gets hurt I mean my reputation gets hurt all the time by other people doing that oh really right oh yeah yeah so like I'll get a lot of people going sorry I don't trust crowdfunding I've backed a bunch of oh right crowdfunders and I go oh so I'm I'm not backing yours oh well we've delivered like nine products yeah but other people say that don't they I yeah I guess like you know so um yeah it it it it not only hurts those filmmakers but it hurts the filmmakers who actively um you know do deliver on it still sure so I think that's I don't know if I've got a third you haven't got a third what about like all the because when what you seem to do is when you put a film up to get crowdfunded yeah you make it look like it's a real thing you I mean very early on you've got your artwork I hope I hope that it is a real thing otherwi having trouble but I guess what I mean is is you go it looks like you go to the trouble to really put a lot of effort into artwork into absolutely everything so it looks like a thing it doesn't look like a thing that's going to happen it looks like it kind of already exists and is there um yeah I mean there's nothing worse than scrolling through a crowdfunder if I don't know a person and I'm looking to a thing and it's like they've used the Bare Bones template there's not even a picture on there yeah they're like we need 10 grand to make Friday the 13th the Savage Killers or whatever uh we've never made a film before but it's going to be really good a promise like um you know we need money for things like uh paying for burgers and you know like that's what it says and or sometimes they just leave the text in there you know that describes what you should write there that's even funnier um that said I see people raise tens of thousands of pounds with campaigns like that so yeah but then I guess that could be because I think what you see is and what I've seen a lot of chatting to students is these days they all crowdfund their final project which to me I'm like do not do that you're you're piling all this money into what is effectively a short film and it's also a short film that you're going to be a bit constrained by because you're going to have to work with certain people on your course yeah uh and once you've asked Nanny and Auntie for money they they're unlikely to then go oh go on then here's another1 P here's another1 P so you're sort of spaffing that one shot you've got well yeah also University is kind of like a weird mini studio system where like like you might be like the Tarantino of your class but that doesn't extend to the real world yeah so it teaches you like really poor lessons where like yeah you might be like the most you know uh the coolest filmmaker out of like the the 17 people in year three yeah but once you come out into the real world you're up against everybody then and so it teaches you like the wrong lessons I think in terms of crowdfunding that kind of stuff I think I have thought of a third one go on then um so it is a full-time job crowdfunding yeah full-time job um it's honestly the worst like I'm not even kidding like like the best way I can describe it is it's like making a film it's putting all that effort in day in day out you know when you're on set and you get up at six o'clock in the morning and you really don't want to but you got to you know and you like all this stuff needs doing people are contacting you about all sorts of things you're doing this and doing that and you're just going I just need to get this together you know like I need to focus and and you do that until like 12 o'clock 2 o'clock in the morning um fall asleep get up at 6 and start again um and you do that for like a month and then you have to go and make the film like um because You' like what people don't realize about crowdfunding is it is like almost a 24hour job you've got to get up at 600 in the morning to hit people before they go to work because most people once they go to work aren't really checking the internet for um like non- business related things a lot of the time um and outside of social media and their M you know where their mates are going for lunch or or whatever they're not really looking at anything like that so you got to hit them at lunch H at at what you Callie before they go to work when they're having their coffee you've got to you've got to have posts fresh new posts up ready this is what we're doing this is what's available today you know this is how the campaign's going today you've got to get that it make people like feel like they need to be involved in it you got to get them again at lunchtime like you know they go for lunch and they do they scroll through their their phones for an hour you got to make sure they're seeing that and they're going oh yeah that guy is doing that thing right yeah I was interested in that oh it's payday today actually MH um you know bang you got to get them then and then you've got to get them when they come home from work when they just sat watching the TV and they'll skipping through their phone oh yeah that campaign's going on and you've got to you've got to hit them and then the rest of the time in between that you you're making artwork you're making posts you're um you're talking to people you're doing thank you posts you're doing uh you know updates on the campaign um with me a lot of the time we're doing like photo shoots around and stuff uh you know test shoots and stuff around it so that there's stuff to show people look this is a thing that's actually happening you know like um and it's a 24 247 job really um for a month which is a long time to and what I usually see is people launch a crowdfunder they go here's our crowdfunder like they get a couple hundred quid the first day and then they go oh no one gave anything on the second day all right okay well well remember we're doing a crowd fun everyone but you you know it's in the middle of the night or whatever when they're worried about it and then next thing day seven well no obviously no one's given to this but you know you should uh and then well there's only two days left on this obvious we're not going to make it and then that's the you know like yeah there the PO that's the post lineage that you see um and it can't be like that it's you're you're putting you're taking people people's money and so that deserves your full attention and effort um it's not fun but again there are there are benefits to it you know I'm not trying to put people off it no you I mean you what you it's interesting because from the outside what people see is they see oh he's doing another film oh it's been funded you know what I mean if say for instance someone's put money into one they might see another one pop up life gets in the way they don't fund it and they go oh that one's done all right as well he must have a bank of people he goes to that always fund his films but clearly it's not that it's perseverance and yeah I mean there are there are like I mean over the over over the years there's names that have popped up that G oh it's that guy again yeah you know like um and at first it just seemed like an anomaly you know like oh or like I recognize that name but then you you go oh every time without fail day one you know Trevor pool's in there Trevor pool um every yeah or like um but also then we've had like every so often you'll have someone who comes and puts a big amount on one film yeah and you you say like this is not an investment you'll never get your money back yeah yeah yeah know I know I know well then they won't ever do it again yeah you know that was their that was their one time that they wanted to fund a film so um so we talk about crowdfunding also another thing you seem to be really good at is this sort of diversification so you got that's to write these down You' got uh where is it uh you've got toys clothing games Comics music videos what why have you done that does that not take your time away from your films yes I don't know and yes um no h I guess a lot of it comes down to I want things to exist but then like finding the people finding the right people to do it is almost or usually more work than figuring it out myself and doing it yeah and what I've tend to find is um that when I do find someone to help to to to do something or who who goes I'll do that I'll do that either don't do it or they do a job that I think okay well I definitely could have done it that yeah you know um so yeah there's partially that I mean I grew up in the '90s and a thing that always stuck with me was that Todd McFarland once said to have success in a franchise you need your four pillars which are movies cartoons uh comics and toys and I was like oh right that's interesting um so like I just kind of grew up kind of going like well I want that one day you know um and then you get kind of get sick of waiting a little bit really like um we got featured in like like was like an an indie comic that licensed some of our characters a few years ago yeah um and that was really amazing to see that start to come to life and they were sharing pictures from it and it was like a big poster of thorn versus the dollat Chris no's dollman and stuff like that and I was like wow like this is and then the comic just never happened yeah and I was like oh well that's a huge disappointment like but I want it to happen I want that you know so then I think well I can draw a bit so then I'd sit down and just go well can I draw a comic guess we'll find out and then I did and then you know and then so then that starts but then that becomes a thing where I have to do that all the time now because people like when's the next comic and I'm like okay um so that that takes a bit more effort out of me but again it's it is fun it's quite addictive fun and there's something to be said for knowing and understanding how lots of different things work especially in film making you don't need to be as good as the soundman but you do need to know how that Equipment Works in case and you need because you have to understand their job really um the amount of film sets I've been on where people don't understand why I'm doing what I'm doing as a lighting Tech or a cameraman or you know like or or even a sound guy the director doesn't understand what I'm doing or why we have to choose this lens um or why we can't do a tracking shop with an 85 millimeter you know like and that's all stuff you need to understand and when I go onto a set I know what other people are doing um or what's achievable what's not achievable um and that's important I think yeah and there's also value in knowing when someone says something it's not possible yeah you can go well actually that is possible I know you know and they might not be doing it to be to and to be difficult they might just not kind of worked it out themselves but you've got the ability to go actually that will work that thing I want to do because this is how it's going to work yeah um so uh what about uh Direct ing so what's your style of directing how do you because horror can be a little bit maligned as sort of you know pick the knife up that's it chase him stab him that's it you know uh is that you you what do you do well I try not to ruin my sound if anything you don't I talk over all my takes no never never never never um that every so often I'll go and run after him and all the actors look at me like what and then I go because I we haven't got that far into the scene but I think oh that would have been a good moment to like transition to the change things during this yeah but by that point they're they're so used to me letting them but I suppose my directing style really is uh what I call the really in um where to be honest once I write a script and get to set if someone says what's the next line I go I don't know like I haven't got I haven't got a clue like even if you just said it I wouldn't be able to tell you what you just said yeah like what I tend to do was go right show me the thing and they actors have learned the thing that I wrote eight months ago or whatever um or currently like four years ago I wrote the script to were shooting in the minute they go show me the scene and they start going through it and I go so it's like seeing it for the first time yeah so I'm looking at it and I'm going okay that's good like but now so it's like watching a film really that I I know nothing about but then what I get to do is go oh right well if if I was the director oh I am what would I change about that performance and I can do that and so what I tend to do is I let actors feel it out because actors tend to know their characters sometimes better than you do H but especially by like you know day 16 of the shoot you know they've been living this character day in day out and you're going from making ninja claws to um to making sure there's enough vegan sandwiches to you know so but they've been in that head space the whole time so you're you let them feel it out and then if anyone goes too far you go reel that in place yeah just come back to it I think I think more like this um so now what I'm guessing is your favorite part of the film making process sales and distribution what have you what have you learned from that that you you would want to tell somebody everybody's a cowboy everybody wants to rip you off is kind of generally the Outlook that I have um no it's a tough one really because I've done it we've done it all now been through like traditional Distributors we've done it ourselves you know we've we've been on like you know what I would call legitimate Services uh we've been on illegitimate Serv Services you know we've been pirated we've been you know it's just every approach kind of has its benefits and its downfalls so I'll guess I'll try and sum those up so self-distribution is you can probably make the money for your film back if you try really hard every day of the week forever for like the next three or four years you'll probably make back that five 10 grand into a lowbudget film and you know if you work really hard at it selling DVDs off your own website and trying to kind of license it on streaming services yourself and things like that you can make your own money back it's really hard it's really a lot of work but the upside is that you own your own film any money that comes in is your money um and you know that's uh you're the master of your own destiny and that's that's nice I like that and also you kind of get a bit more of an inside scoop on how the market Works which is really good for you going forward as a filmmaker um I me that's really what happened to us is we got an inside scope on how the market worked we worked toward that and then we did it so well that a distributor picked up the films that we put together for how we considered the market at that time to be working so because what we did is we looked at the market from a point of view that we've been putting films into and going what is selling when is it selling and then because we hit that market right then suddenly Distributors went oh you've got something that's worth some money because you've hit it the right thing at the right time um well that's hard to do when you've got to kind of really engross yourself into it um but then yeah so but also we've signed with kind of what would call A A semi like a a middle a middle midsize distributor so not one of the big studios but people who release kind of like classic versions of big studio and stuff uh but the problem with signing through distributor is you almost never get paid anything um ever like um on the odd time we have it's been a bit of a struggle to get that money even when you know there's been oh we'll pay you x amount or you know um upfront or whatever trying to actually get that money into our bank accounts has been like sometimes um litigious you know like um because they just don't want to part with that money like they want your film everyone wants your film because almost all films are worth some money to distribut is I mean that's the reality of it and they'll tell you the opposite go it's got nobody in it so no one cares honestly as long as the poster is right um or even then it doesn't have to be right as long as it exists some people will be interested in it if as long as it's available to watch someone will want to watch it or handful of people will want to watch it um all films really um are worth some money um and Distributors know that but they'll try and tell you why it's not worth anything and why you should just give it to them and they'll sort you out they promise on the back end and that's this is a problem I think is unless basically someone's paying you to go away uh like one of the bigger Distributors you know like Sony or one of their kind of subsidiaries or Paramount or Universal or one of their kind of straight to video subsidiaries you're you're G to find it very difficult to make a meaningful amount of money back in kind of like just before the HD Revolution I could see that you could make a film for 35 40 Grand and make 60 Grand back on an mg um yeah you know I mean that I was saying to Su the other night so the first film I made diagnosis we went to can 98 I think everything was shot on film and we got 40 Grand minimum guarantee and we saw some of that money and then it was literally it was like the next year HD films and then it was all over it was just there was more stuff nothing's worth anything anymore it's all worthless yeah um so we don't have to pay which is a shame because it's the digital Revolution it's giving filmmakers all that freedom at the same time it's it's binding them to not making any money out of it yeah absolutely well we went from while I was making creepsville the film that never happened to getting offers from waren brothers and Paramount well they so they have like low budget Subs subsidaries that you'll recognize on the shelves usually under a different name um like four digital and things like that are subsidiaries of the bigger Studios that make kind of Supermarket shelf fillers I guess as we call them now um and um yeah we were getting offers before the film was even done then um an SD film shot on shot on digital you know where you were getting offer um literally within two years of finishing you know it took us to finish slasher house and the MGs were like 1500 quid yeah like it's just and obviously none of the big studios came I think we had E1 but they didn't want to pay us anything um and so um you know it was it went from everyone like you know if you made a film people would take notice to there too much there like there's too many people doing it now you know unless you got someone famous we're not interested kind of thing thanks for listening if you want all the behind the scenes information that's going to help you with a career in a creative industry then please do[Music] subscribe